happened in facebook. I read an article by José Luis Valladares , a friend of this blog and steely government critic who suffer. Jose Luis is one of the most regular contributors and Site strong middle class Arag ng. In facebook profile This organization publishes the best articles and a member of the network clear text criticized the anti-liberal animosity.
Article, José Luis indicated that higher VAT, far from helping, as the Government, to support the unemployed, create many others. Gives a figure of half a million, without explaining where the bag, but it is a technical article which show econometric skills. This was used for its critical to brand have "a very liberal crystal ball" . Responded to criticism.
Next was a brief series of exchanges of views I'm sure many English liberals you sound familiar caspase : the illiberal start throwing some questions, but when they answer, is deaf and spends to fly the "ideas "strength" of its position, you know, the typical prejudices according to which "Liberalism is the ideology of the rich against the poor" (do not use those exact words, but are deducted).
The final fireworks when it appeals to compassion for the poor, pensioners, unemployed, assuming that liberals (which by golly, we should all be millionaires and I'm here without finding out) we have created the crisis, we have taken oil money and now want to share and forcing the rest to break one's back to work .
How could it be otherwise in so typical anti-liberal ideology that our party has just stating that the Liberals are ethically and morally perverse to feel indifference to the pain of others (according to him, we see people only as numbers).
For obvious reasons of respect and privacy, the caller's identity is not revealed. Put their stakes in red (ahem), mine in blue, no other reason than because this my favorite color. Of course, I recommend as preparatory reading the article that led to the "debate."
with all of you, the conversation will surely reconozcáis have maintained many times
article criticizing illiberal José Luis Valladares:
you have a very liberal crystal ball ... So much so that when the government fails to take action is because it is incompetent and wasteful, when you take them and cut costs in also bad, if you go up 2% vat is then so terrible a burden to take us to infinity disaster ... but if non-payment of pension or social assist those harmed by the crisis and then you find another epithet ...
Funny how liberals games out now like mushrooms everywhere, it is curious that do not really know what you would do in a situation like this, because if a thing is bad, and if done the opposite too.
Ah! if street, I know, leave it to the invisible hand of Adam Smith, that would be settled all in five minutes, but I fear that even he had a crystal ball as catastrophic as yours.
My first response:
XXXXX Lord: It is possible that the anticipation of Mr. Valladares on that VAT will help lead to 500,000 more unemployed, was somewhat shocking for a little explanation. However, it took more than a year reading Mr. Valladares and to our dismay, has a high level of success in their analysis of the behavior of the government (I say unfortunately because I wish the Government would behave differently). What you call forecasts are actually deductions taken careful observation of Mr. Valladares, who with skill sets in black and white in their articles. Hopefully Mr. Valladares not correctly, but I think it is difficult to contradict that the VAT hike consumption retract, making it harder to make ends meet from month to millions of English, will create more tax evasion and arrears and expel small market marginal businesses.
You say that Mr. Valladares says not to do in the current situation. If you take some time reading to know that this is not true. In fact, some of their most obvious are easily deductible not clueless reading this article, to enumerate the common errors and wastage of government.
hope you do not get me wrong my comment, share different opinions is a sign of intellectual health. Also, do not pretend to defend Mr. Valladares, who need it, know it very well himself.
Greetings.
Reply:
already, then what we should do is be even more liberal than the other European countries, most taxes are still higher than us .. right?
http://www.hosteltur.com/n
And this as you can see for yourself what the government says NO and Zapatero, or the minister, says a private company, catering for more signs.
Liberalism this newly formed, which is the same as always, you see where it is that systematically eluding the answers to the questions of how and where does the money for roads, hospitals, schools, or many other things as many other services necessary for community living. If they were there would be neither old nor Inserso travel or dancing or older. For them the only thing that counts is money, and interest, that if, when bankers, speculators and crooks leave a bankrupt country, they already have well prepared her recipe. Go back
you to strive and work for four dollars to lift the country, which we will bring us money again.
Rejoinder:
If you mean the vast majority of European countries with an unemployment rate one percentage figure in any case much lower than ours, less deficit, with much less bureaucracy in creating companies, public administrations are dutifully paying their providers (and often not in default as English), and not a few of them per capita income than English, with a much more competitive labor market and educational and vocational training more effective, I will hand you the VAT hike for all these characteristics.
Clearly, the VAT is not going to help these countries seem to us to take advantage but they are faring worse. other hand, that if you say "even" more liberal than others (as if that were difficult to be a little bit as it is more than most) not only depends on not raising taxes, but (mostly) of what the money is spent. As rightly pointed out Mr. Valladares, which is expected to raise the VAT hike will go to already committed by the government, not wipe our monstrous deficit that hampers the possibilities of financing the expensive risk of English public debt. That will mean more deficit for the future, which will usher in a serious spiral of + Debt + Taxes + DESPILFAR
To explain: the VAT hike and the result is accumulated debt. If that debt also is directed primarily to subsidize areas close to power or directly unproductive to be maintained by those who do produce in order to keep bags of votes, it is obvious that from a liberal point of view that cause rejection, and in my If I'm going further: disgusts me.
If that makes me put the etiquetita of "evil liberal", because hey, I did not lose any sleep, much worse than I have been called. In fact, with your permission, my ideas and I go to sleep soundly.
Greetings.
(sorry if this was something "chop", but that was after twelve o'clock and I saw he was not going to get anything useful to the conversation.)
Colophon:
Man .., best of all would be dedicated to save banks, whether man, such that absolute predictability and effective teams neoliberal economists were all so clear the crisis was coming, they decided to give credit to the first passing through the door so as not to lose market ... Aided all is said by the Governor of the Bank of Spain, it now sees no choice but to free dismissal to fix the mess ... Have you value even opening the mouth of the perfect knowing failure of the economy without control has brought us this far, and above is still permissible to continue to provide the gibberish junk usual terminology is definitely something that cries to heaven.
you not look both more Debt + Taxes + Benefits + Stories, man ....,
Look at all those who have fallen in the street with one hand in front and another behind, which are people do you know? Are not numbers, and at least at least entitled to some of the state, because they also are not to blame for the disasters of an economic system where there is mangancia retirees billionaire bankers, international speculators, stock brokers and similar animals, and allow some of that money to the effort of all will come out, and not the other pocket.
Final (for now ...):
already part of my grant money (most forcibly and without choice) and I have the luck to keep my work and no pay little tax. It seems that for you, we pay more. Is very easy to pay more to the tax voluntarily, but that efforts to make others pay is certainly not an example of tolerance and respect for freedom (and money) of others. Funny
how to repeat the smears more topical and void on liberalism:
1) have created a crisis: you have to throw imagination when it is generated in two sectors as state and operated as the financial and real estate. The supply of land and housing in Spain and in many other countries is not free or anything, always decided by the authorities, do not tell me you did not know if enough to read. On the banks, where to look who else has criticized the bailout of them are liberal economists and intellectuals. And in Spain it has a socialist government, the press has barely said anything related. Can you imagine what that rescue would have said if is carried out by a government that was not the PSOE?
If you know what I think about it I invite you to read this link
http://desde-el-laberinto.
2) After you speak of money to be given to others . That is, think about sharing wealth but not create it. Typical of most old-fashioned socialism and impoverishing. It looks at what he said IMSERSO travel, which I consider to be a good example of waste. But also, you only think about charity. It is only fair that those retirees would choose what to do with the money generated by their work and not be paying them a pension that we work now. That is, just what is a funded system of pensions. As we crossed into facebook, I attach the link to the web in the same network where it is explained (I encourage you to read without prejudice) and why this system is much more cost effective and ethical than the current:
http://www.facebook.com/?r
3) Liberalism is ethically perverse. Just happened. According to you, liberals treat people as numbers. Look, I do not need doubt his good will, no doubt ponder on who wants the best for their peers, as if liberals do you do with the speaker, that look more like the evil villains of a short story for children. I understand that this childish vision is comfortable, the world is easier if we paint it all black and white and we are always on the side of good. Do you think that I have loved ones in the severe unemployment or economic hardship? From what blinding prejudices nebula can prejudge without knowing the values \u200b\u200band principles of those who profess an ideology that you show ignorance and just have the same distorted references typical of a bad movie script Hollywood?
I have no intention to bother you intellectually in which it seems your comfortable stay in the Manichean division of reality, but if one dares to take up the healthy habit of doubt, I will allow the excess to recommend a short book "Principles liberal" Dario Antiseri. Yes, be careful not to give you a anaphylactic shock.
http://www.diariosigloxxi.
9012 Greetings and good night.
( Yes, I put a television spot on my blog, do you spend something? ;)).
Anyway, this is l or there "out there." For the little but very good who read this blog, as liberals, have you no sense on many occasions and have spoken a hundred times with a person whom you had never let you cross? How is it possible that they are so similar to each other illiberal?
Suffering supporting the original liberal and argued a liberal diatribe knowledgeable and victim of evil capitalism. 
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